Saturday Service

S1 E10•June 3, 2023•48 min

Episode 10: On The God of Abraham!

In this episode, we consider the consequences of the life of Abraham and the interpretation of the identity of his God by his descendants.

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Transcript

0:04

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Saturday Service. I am still Ademola, and with me is. I. I'm thinking of a new clerical title to give you, but I can't. I can't seem to think of any.

0:25

Maybe we should just keep it at Divya.

0:27

What is Dibia, by the way?

0:29

Dbi, I think, is a medicine man in agriculture. Some kind of medicine.

0:34

Oh, okay.

0:37

The ones with the. At least from the films, the ones with the white chalk around their eye.

0:45

Basically far. Or what is Harvard list?

0:50

Yeah, exactly. The priests, the ones that people go to, and I hear that culture is. The white chalk thing, is that the eye with the white chalk sees the spirit world while the other eye sees the living world. Something like that. I think that's the myth of the culture.

1:13

That makes sense, actually, because if you think about the mechanics of our eyes, it's basically the way images form in our brains is basically one eye is seeing one side and one eye is another part, and then our brains sort of combine those images to become one thing. And so it's like. Oh. So it's like you are seeing things in two realms and it gives you an understanding or it gives you sort of a clarity that.

1:43

Yeah, that's a brilliant analogy.

1:45

Yeah, it's. It's.

1:46

And it reminds me of Mad Eye Moody from Harry Potter.

1:50

Yeah. Yeah.

1:52

It's amazing, Demola, how. How these beliefs, how they perpetuate across societies. Like, if you take something from this culture, you'd find something near it, something similar to it in other cultures in one way, you know, one form or another. And I guess it brings us down to the topic today, which is about seeing the same thing as is from different perspectives. So maybe I should allow you to introduce it properly. But just my brain is just tying initial conversations.

2:33

Yeah. I just want to preface this by saying we did not plan that intro. It just came about very spontaneously. But I think that's what you get when two writers come together and say, let's do this. Let's come up with, like an amazing introduction. And that's what we got. We're talking about the three Abrahamic religions. And, you know, I think it's the fact that they are called Abrahamic religions sort of gives it away. These religions sort of have their origin. Have their origins in. In Abraham, the historical character, or, I don't know, religiously fictitious character, whatever side of the fray you're standing on. But it's basically that these three religions basically serve the God of Abraham. Right. And why he is the sort of origin Faith point, the origin point of faith across these three religions. I can't really say why, but my research has shown or even just by the virtue of these, of the texts of these three religions, you see that Abraham is a pretty consistent figure across all three. It's either Abraham or Ibrahim or just whichever language you are or medium you're using to approach these subjects. They're basically all talking about the same guy. And stories are pretty consistent now. I mean, of course you have the problem of the unreliable narrator where if one person is narrating the story, it's sort of a little bit different or some details sort of get mixed up when another person is telling the same story and, you know, you sort of, it sort of scientifically apparently gives credence to the, to the, to the story. So you sort of get a sense that perhaps Abraham was even, you know, a true historical figure. And the existence of these three vastly different religions. Yeah. That sort of preach different doctrines and different.

4:53

Are they vastly different, though? I mean, we will come to all of these points in the debate. The question, the leading question in the back of my mind will be, are they that different? I know we think we have images in our minds and images are also important. Do you get the images we associate with pain and how it influences our thoughts on how different or how similar things are? Images play a huge role in how we define that at a mental level. So when you say Judaism and just for just to rehash or mention the three, three Abrahamic faiths, it's Judaism, Islam and Christianity. And when you mention Judaism, you have a picture of a guy with, you know, in a black robe, fancy looking Pharisee like headdress working to the synagogues or maybe someone in a, what do they call that, their skull cap in that, I don't know what they call that school, that little Jewish.

5:58

Yeah.

5:59

And, and we have that image in our head now, the. For Muslims. You also have another image in your head on what that is for Christians, you know, so these images play a big part in helping us see how different they are. But it will be helpful maybe in the course of this podcast to drill a little deep into the core of their beliefs and the points of divergence and just ask ourselves, yeah, the points of divergence. Same thing masquerading in three ways. And what, what are, what influences, what influenced that divergence and what can we take out of it?

6:37

I think, I think a beautiful way to look at it would be sort of, you know, our classic fairy tales of today where everybody knows about Cinderella and the glass slippers and Sleeping Beauty and Snow White and all of these sort of popular fairy tale characters. And you hear about how initially these were dark stories and very different stories from what they currently are and how their true essence has sort of been lost to several translations. And so you might think that you know the actual story, but you actually don't because there's like text that has been edited and changed and sort of changed to fit a particular narrative that maybe the author or the rewriter is trying to tell. And so you start to wonder about whether this is what happened with, you know, different. With these different religions. Again, I think you mentioned something about points of divergence.

7:41

Yes.

7:42

Between these or among these three religions. And I think it's important to note that if you look at the scripture, it's basically, there's some kind of like chronological. There's a story that time tells about how these religions sort of how their scriptures, other scriptures end. Anyway, so. So in Judaism you have the Torah and the Torah is basically the Old Testament, the laws of Moses, basically the life of Moses and his laws and everything around that. That sort of gives it context, right?

8:17

Yes.

8:17

And. And in the Bible you also, you also have parts of the Torah in the Bible and then you now have sort of the New Testament that talks about, you know, Jesus and his apostles and all of that. And then you go further down the line and you find, you know the Quran. Right. And you have the Quran and you have the Torah. And apparently it's like two different books, but depending on what kind of book you buy. Again, I don't know for sure, but it's basically, you also have the Torah in, in Islam and then you now have the Quran. And the Quran is basically this how you live day to day, written by or revealed by the Prophet Muhammad. And you notice that the Islamic texts reference Jesus as a prophet and references Jesus in a different way from how the Christians describe him. And so, you know, one must wonder across these three religions and depending on who sort of establishes it as a, or who sort of established it as a religion, what was the message that they were trying to pass across and how did that inform sort of the gathering of these books? So can we trust the events that were explained in any of these books? Or are they sort of. Somebody took this particular scripture and said, you know what, let me expand on it, because I have this story to tell and I have this message to pass across.

9:52

So there are a number of dimensions to it and I want to, I want to invite you to look at it from the scientific dimension too. It's one thing to read about this incredible event, incredible people from these stories, and I'll use stories. And it's another thing to find hard evidence as to the existence of these people or the footprints they left behind. Okay, now on one end, science is not infallible. Or is that the word? Yeah, science. Science is not infallible in that what you uncover, what you test, might necessarily not be the truth. You know that joke of them seeing a Coca Cola can, a rusted Coca Cola can In the next 2,000 years, you know, the future humans and saying, ah, this used to be whatever it is, they define it as not knowing. Dude, it was just a Coca Cola can. It has zero hair. So there is that bit of it. But just some quick research. And again for disclaimer, we are not theologians, we are not historical historians. Were probably Wikipedia, Wikipedia historians. So for the serious theologians, historians out there listening to us, these are just two ordinary people, generalists speaking.

11:24

Okay, you will be, please reach out and educate us. Exactly.

11:28

Reach out and educate us. But just my own quick desk research. What I see, what I read is that there isn't hard evidence that Abraham existed or that all of the things that majority of things that were said about this individual, there is no scientific footprint, as it were. And this is just reference, Wikipedia reference. There's no evidence. Despite exhaustive archaeological investigation, no evidence has been found for historical Abraham. Now, I also don't want to believe that some individual did not exist, maybe named Abraham or not, whose life was remarkable enough to be chronicled. And if we look at the story, the Judaism, Christianity and Islam seems to agree on some general themes, that this individual existed, he worked with God. In quotes, we'll come to how each of them defines God. But he worked with God and lived an incredible life enough, worthy enough to be chronicled. And part of that included having a child at old age against whatever the science of the day was, which was some sort of miracle and living in faith, as it were. That's what we hear across the different, different religions. And if I use the Bible as a reference, and this is me talking, it appeared, it appears that all of it takes reference from the Jewish tradition. I think so. I mean, we call them Abrahamic religions, but the assumption is that the Jewish tradition sort of birthed or influenced these stories. But then those stories found their way across geography or across other geographical zones where these stories were kind of modified along different lines. So even if you went into the Bible, for instance, Christianity comes much Later, Christ comes much later after Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And even though Islam has references to Ibrahim or Abraham, they also have references to Jesus. WUHU comes, you know, chronologically much later than Moses or all of those early fathers of the faith, as Christianity makes us believe. So if I were to order it, I would say that the Jewish religion or Judaism sort of is at the bedrock. And at some point Christianity and Islam tee off that. But as to the. As to the. As to the truth of the story having been told and retold and chronicled over the last millennia or two, it will be difficult to say this is what the truth is, more so that there isn't any hard evidence to say, well, we found this to show that this person walked through this place or this person lived here. So those are my thoughts as to the ordering of the history. What are your thoughts on the. On the centrality of their message and the points of divergence?

15:14

I think, I think, again, as. As you saw, as you. As you said, Abraham is at the center, right? And all of this sort of started because one man supposedly lived in. Supposedly lived in perfect faith and perfect alignment to God to the point where all these three religions tell a story of how when he finally got this son, Isaac, God asked him to kill the kid. And he was like. He had so much faith in God that he was like, yeah, sure, I'm going to run it. I want to kill the kid, as it were. I think, again, I'm not sure how true this is, but apparently Islam sort of teed off from Ishmael, right? You know, he's Abraham's first son, but who, who was born to him from Sarah's servants, who is Isaac's mom. I'm probably doing a bad job painting the family tree here, but apparently the. Where Islam sort of takes its roots, it also takes its roots from Abraham, but it goes through the other, the first child.

16:32

But isn't that, isn't that Christian perspective? Isn't that a Christian story? Isn't that, Isn't that how Christianity has chosen to tell that story? And remember that storytellers would try to control the narrative in their favor. Yeah, it would be to say the chosen child was our own and the other child is the other person.

16:59

Something like that.

17:00

But go ahead. I'm just. I'm just trying to question or challenge that position.

17:04

Yeah, no, that. That's actually pretty valid because again, I'm just telling the story how I've heard it and how I know it. It will be very invaluable to have A Muslim on podcast. I keep trying to think of somebody to bring on, but the logistics of it all, again, we are not an established studio, so bringing people on is probably going to be a bit difficult than, you know. But, yeah, I get what you're saying, and I think that was the point I was sort of getting to, is that each propagator of their own religion saw it fit to write their scriptures in a way that makes them seem like, oh, yeah, like, sure, there are three Abrahamic religions, but we are the more correct one. And that's really where the debate is really across the board, because it's always one religion trying to say, you guys have it wrong. This is how to do it. The other guy is like, no, you guys have it wrong. And then the other guy's like, I respect what you are doing here, but you still have it wrong.

18:06

Right?

18:06

And so between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, popular arguments, at least that I've heard, is, you know, the Jews saying, you know what? Jesus is not the son, is not the king that was promised. We're still waiting for the Messiah. Yeah, he's still going to come and deliver us from the hands of our, you know, oppressors. And so you have a lot of people even in Israel today who are still going through a lot of hardships, and so they sort of have some kind of justification to say, hey, we're still waiting for our Messiah, you know, and then. But the Christians are like, dude, the Messiah has come a long time ago. Look at your calendar. Come on. You know, if you look at the Gregorian calendar, it seems like the Christians are winning because, you know, 2023 A.D. but, no, you sort of get the sense that, you know, the Christians have come again, and even, you know, they had the Crusades and they said, you know what? Everything else that you say that's very different from what we're saying is heresy, and we're going to kill you for that. Right. Because always the true way. And there have been claims, and I don't know how true this is, that there are different scriptures that are not in, like, the standard Bible that you have. And, you know, this is where I start to smell rats. But it's basically, the Christian Bible has so many translations from the original text and the original language that it sort of becomes hard to follow. And some things maybe get lost in translation and some words that have different meanings, people start to translate them in different ways to suit their own personal biases or doctrines or whatever. But the point again remains that people are telling stories or the People in charge, because there are, people in charge are telling stories in a way that they will claim, oh well, I've been, I've been inspired by the spirit of God to tell the story in this way or to translate this. And going down to the Islamic side of things, it's, you know, they will say, well you guys, we know that Jesus was a thing, yeah, but you know, he wasn't like the son of God because like think about God can't have children. And so God only had sent prophets and Jesus was also a prophet. And you know, it's sort of like they are fighting against the very core of the belief of Christians which is like Jesus is the son of God and if you don't believe that, you're going to hell. Because the basic thing is whosoever believes in Jesus will not die. And you know, that's like the core of the Christian belief. Right? And for, you know, Muslims to come and say, you know, that's not exactly what it is, you know, it sort of creates some kind of core fundamental difference. Right? And it's. So it's all basically, I think the main components in the difference, like the center of every argument will always be the Messiah figure, right? Where one, one religion claims that the Messiah is not here yet, the second claims that the Messiah has come and he was actually the actual son of God. And the other one is saying no, God can actually have kids. It's all prophets. And so all of that sort of translates to what text they will allow in their scripture. Because obviously all the books in the Bible are not, are probably not all the books that were written by inspired men of God and they were not written by all the prophets. And he just had 12 disciples. And in the Bible, the Gospels, you don't have 12 Gospels, you understand? And one would expect that a little bit more than three or four prophets would have written gospels different, their own accounts of the gospel. And you know, you might probably get it differently. So yeah, it's all a bunch of different things. And but yeah, again the core of the debate is the Messiah figure and whether or not God can have children or not in my view.

21:56

And that's the question. Right. Remember this is Saturday service. We even though we are a disclaimer, we are or we lean towards the Christian faith. We both have Christian backgrounds. But the intention is to have these discussions as neutrally as possible and hear as many perspectives as possible in a non judgmental way. So that's what we are for. Now to the main players or the main characters in this story, Abraham seems to be a mutually agreed figure, even though what is said about his children and his generational downline might vary from one teller or one face. When I say teller, I meant storyteller to another. So while Christians might say we are the legitimate heirs of this historical figure and the illegitimate, here are these other guys. Islam, you know, probably, yeah, differently. But one thing I say is that sort of all of them reference it right now as to the point of divergence. And this is just from my quick research. You are totally on money. Demola diversity. That Christ is a divisive figure across these three religions. Judaism is a monotheistic religion that believes in the, in the essence, you know, in that believes in one God. And that is what its belief set is premised on, that there can only be one God. Now for any other religion, whether an offshoot of Judaism or not, to claim that another individual sits on the same pedestal as that overarching divinity, that God that is at the top of the pyramid, I think is one of the core issues, or not even I think is one of the core issues with that Judaism has against this person of Christ. Again there is the gist that this Christ will come again, there will be the end of the world and all of that. Judaism has a slightly different belief on that too. While they acknowledge Jesus as a prophet, that someone existed, they do not acknowledge his equality rating with the Godhead, which I believe Christianity seems to be the core of Christianity. Now if you look at, if you look at Islam, Islam equally acknowledges Jesus as a, as a prophet. Like Judaism, they also believe strongly that it is be equating Jesus as, you know, the right hand of God or God himself or God incarnate is none. It does not align with their belief sets right. And to them Jesus was succeeded by Muhammad. Peace be unto him who further continues the things that Jesus, you know, stood for or at constant. So for them there is a continuation in this line of prophets as against the emphasis that Christianity puts on Jesus. Now when I look at the Jesus story, I also want to look at it from this angle because one of the things that Jesus came to say was that the kingdom of heaven to go into the kingdom of heaven, you have to go through me 1. And that this kingdom of heaven that had been reserved for the chosen, that's the chosen tribes of Israel is no longer an exclusive right of Israelites as the chosen heir to God's kingdom, but rather the gate has been flung open. And now Gentiles and Asians and Sumerians and You know, everybody from all over the world can come in through this gate to access a connection with the Godhead. When I read this as a story, it seems that this, you know, it might be an agenda of inclusivity, that there's this religion that people feel is exclusive. And then the outsiders think, oh well, it can't be only these guys. Now we have to retell this story or tell the story in a way that includes us. Again, these are all just hypotheses. But I agree with you that the central dividing figure is Christ and how he is perceived. And what I'm trying to say is Christ's gospel has been, you know, breaking that exclusivity, arrogating the powers of the God, Godhead to himself and making a bold claim that the world is going to end when I return. I think those are sort of the core things that poke the finger into the eyes of this in court established Judaism religion and which I also think that Islam sort of sides with. Again, you have an Islamic background, so to speak. It will be, I'm curious to know, you know, to. In what direction did this, did Muhammad, peace be unto him, move this Jesus's ministry? And what things did Muhammad, at least in the, in the, in the Quran, what, what sort of things did they agree on? I mean did Jesus in the Quran and the Jesus in the Christian Bible, what sort of things do they agree or disagree on? Do you, do you know, I feel.

28:08

Bad because you've asked this question so eloquently and with so much thought. What I do get answer. My granddad, my, my granddad who is a Muslim on my mom's side, got us, me and my sister and my cousins, a Quran translated to English. And for the life of me, I did not read that book not because of anything against Islam, but to be honest, I haven't even read the Bible cover to cover. I will try, but I usually fail, you know, so I can't really tell you anything concrete. I do have conversations from time to time with Muslims. I want to do that more, but I think just to sort of get a sense of where we all are sort of in terms of whether or not we do believe that we're worshipping the same God or how we feel about each other because I think that's very important, especially since, you know, at the core of Christianity and Islam and even Judaism, there's a general message of peace. And one of the things that, in the words of Jesus that really stand out to me is, you know, you can be at peace with People that are like you and your own friends, you know, even the wicked people do the same thing. What really sets you apart is if you are at peace with other people who do not necessarily agree with you or whom you do not necessarily like. I think that's one of the reasons why I pursue sort of understandings of other religions and other faiths and all of that. But I really do think that even before analyzing the texts and the scripture, all of which each faith assumes or believes to be true, 100%, I think we also need to ask questions around what the meaning of the content is and whether or not the content is to be taken seriously or it is taken as some kind of guideline. When I say seriously, I don't mean like, oh, we should take it as a gym. I just mean are religious texts history books, or are they lifestyle guidelines? Does that make sense? Because it will help for us to understand where we stand individually and even as a faith on this particular, on what these scriptures mean, whether or not they are history books or guidelines, before we can now say, okay, you know what, yes, this is how we should actually live our lives. And this is probably the more correct or, you know, people should just stick with what they know. And by God's grace, may the best faith win. It's not a competition. Yeah, yeah, that's. That's basically, that's basically my thinking.

30:58

My, my answer to that would. I don't want. I, I don't intend to sound political, but I think it's a blend of both.

31:06

Yeah.

31:07

And I'm really trying. I'm trying hard not to be political, but I think it's a blend of both. One is that I can't deny the cultural influence in all of these books. There is a heavy Middle Eastern, Semitic cultural influence across these religions. And disclaimer. I have only read the Bible. I have a Quran, which I have read intermittently for reference, but not like actively reading it. So my position might be heavily scared or biased for Christianity, but what I know is that even in the Christian Bible there is a huge influence, Jewish cultural influence, which partly makes it historical and which partly drives my own motivations to say anything that is historical, if it is historical, can be archaeologically proven or inspected. So if they said that the ark existed, you should, I mean archaeologically, you should be able to trace it somewhat and find it somewhat if it hasn't fully rotten. So I think it's historical and I also think it's a guideline. Even in my own personal life, I find very useful texts in the Bible on many things, on money, on relationships, on marriage, on emotions, on sin that are practical guidelines in helping you live a better life. Same thing for the Quran. I have Muslim friends I relate with and they're if I have Quranic verses I have saved because they sort of influence my worldview or I find a lot of value in those verses. So I think like you asked, I think it's a mixture of both. And from a story perspective, I doubt if there's an absolute truth or a text that says the absolute truth in a way that compels us to leave its truth to the T. I don't think there is such work because anything that is written by man in my opinion is influenced by man. And we all understand the fickleness of the eye. Do you get. Once someone absorbs something, interprets it and rewrites it, that thing does not come out whole. It is influenced by their perspective. And that's why you find many obsolete things in the Bible. That's why you find, you know, obsolete practices in the Bible that you know, at the time of Moses might be normal, but right now you'll be like, well, you can't just stone people anymore.

34:00

These days or if somebody stole a.

34:03

Donkey, you can't do this anymore. Times are changing, culture is changing.

34:08

So you can't own slaves. It was a pretty normal.

34:10

Exactly, exactly, you can't own slaves. So those, those are the cultural, historical parts of it. But I think the general guidelines, the fundamental principles do not change. All of these books sort of want you to be a better person. All of these books have given practical guidelines as to how you can improve your faith, how you can improve your understanding of divinity, your understanding of what you can see. I mean at the most fundamental, this is what I see extinctize them. But to, to answer, sorry very quickly to answer the question I asked you before. I'm just reading here and sorry, this is me just wicking on the go, right?

34:55

Research.

34:58

The Quran. Jesus is described as the Messiah, born of the virgin, performing miracles, accompanied by disciples, rejected by the Jewish establishment and raised to heaven. Again, these are just wiki references. I've not read these actual texts, but I want to believe they are actual references. However, the Quran asserts that Jesus was not crucified, nor did he die on a cross, nor was he miraculously saved by God. In the Quran, the prophethood of Jesus is preceded by that of Yahya and succeeded by Muhammad, the latter of whom Jesus is reported to have prophesied by using the name Ahmad. But Judaism clearly, clearly renounces this whole idea of Jesus because historically, some Jewish writers and scholars consider Jesus as the most damaging false prophet in brackets. And traditional views of Jesus, negative through influential Jewish scholars of the Middle Ages. Yeah, so there you have it. Wiki Wiki facts.

36:07

Yeah. Okay. I think that's a lot. Jews renounce it completely. You know, there was an article floating around on the Internet about this Jesus character in one country in Africa somewhere. And apparently, you know, it was. This was towards Easter, and he was now. Something now happened. People in the village or in the town or whatever, they now started saying, well, since you are Jesus, it's almost Easter. We're gonna. We're gonna crucify you. And by force, you must rebuild the temple in three days. And he now went to the police and said, I beg. I beg, help me. So it's. It's so crazy. One. One could actually think about it and say, you perhaps, maybe Jesus is one of the most damaging vultures. I mean, he is the one that does, I think, the most extreme. I'm looking for, like, a very careful way to put this so as not to, like, really offend anybody. But my point is, nobody else dies and comes back to life. No, nobody does that. That's. That's very powerful stuff. Right. And one religion basis is its entire. Its entirety on that and says, yes, everything about this guy is true, is legit. This is what happened. Right. So you can understand why either side, both religions might say, one will say, oh, you know what? He didn't die and come back to life. Another is like, he did not. It was not even a thing at all.

37:50

Yeah.

37:50

You know, and you can see why that's even more controversial. And depending on the kind of Christian you are, you might find that as juice, extra juice to say, yes, yes, yes, I believe this guy. I believe this guy. But I think, again, it's. It's also very important to think. If we look at the religious texts as guidelines or history books or whatever, there's. I read an article by Soren Kirka, God, about how he was describing. And this was in, like. I don't. It was definitely not in the 1900s or 2000s, you know, pre 1900s, basically. I don't remember the exact time frame, but he said something about if you went to church today and pre 1900s. If you went to church today and somebody. And the pastor or the priest was saying something about, you know, how our venerable Father Abraham was so faithful to God that he would go to kill his only son and, you know, that would Be like his ultimate show of faith and all of that. And somebody now says, somebody in the church now says, you know what? I think I heard God speak to me and I'm supposed to go and kill my son, or I'm supposed to offer myself as a living sacrifice. People in the church, even the priest himself, will come and say, I don't think you want to kill yourself. I don't think you should kill yourself. I don't think, you know. And they would argue that person's conviction to the point that they will make the person seem like the person is crazy, even though they are. Yeah, Even though they believe so strongly that they've been ministered to by God to do, to take these steps. So I think we must be careful as well in saying, yes, the Bible is an ultimate guideline. And you touch this point in, you know, practices back then are not necessarily practices now. And I do think that context is important. Even when we are dealing with faith. Faith matters because the kind of lifestyles that these people are living back in the day, you know, is completely different from ours. And there's this thing, I'm going to be speaking to Christianity and the church and say, even the Pentecostal churches and I don't know about Orthodoxy, but basically you be in a church service and they will read a verse in the Bible that maybe had something to do with David. And David was probably lamenting to God and he was saying, God, I am your beloved. Bless me, heal me, save me from my enemies. And then the pastor is going to say, you know, read that Bible verse, but put your name I, Ademola. Lord, I am your servant. Heal me, save me. And like, I get the idea behind that, but it's generally, especially in my experience, has been trying to claim the promises that God made to people who lived their lives millennia ago. And to say that because God's word is unchanging and everlasting, these promises apply to me too. Yeah, I think that's one of. I think my own opinion. I think that's a dangerous mindset or way to actually use the scripture because it blinds us to. To considering the realities of our present times when. When considering sort of faith in general and lifestyle doctrines and what the Bible says about dressing this way and, you know, what the Bible says about the dynamics between relationships and whether or not your wife can go and have a job, you know, and what that means if she goes and has a job outside and whether or not she's still supposed to do the exact same things, you understand, like I'm just, I'm not saying, I'm not arguing against what it is. I'm just saying those sort of present day contexts need to also be taken into account. And so if you are saying that the Bible is a history book, it tells us, yes, this is how these people did things in their time. And the Bible will tell you and other scriptures as well, tell you that these were sort of the conditions that led to God saying this and this and that. Right. And I think again, as a history book, because we learn from history, obviously it tells us that in a situation like this, this is probably the best way to respond, you know, but then when you take it as a guideline and then God is probably talking to Solomon and saying, you know what? Hey man, ask me for anything and I'll give it to you. And Solomon says, God, give me wisdom to lead your people. And then God says, I will add, you know, I will add wealth and everything to you. And then you, you now come and say, and, and God says, ask me for anything. And you ask for wisdom. You are sort of asking for wisdom because you feel like he's going to add, he's going to add jara, he's going to add extra when he may not be, he may not want to do that. You know, sort of. That I think is my own big question around whether or not the Bible is a history book or a lifestyle guide, if that makes sense.

43:03

I think if we look at the underlying principles, and I disagree with you on this, that I can claim the blessings of Abraham or David if my understanding, or if what I'm claiming is not, it's not like I'm claiming it to the letter that God said he would give Abraham 100 cows and two yokes of oxen. So God will give me 100 cows and two yolks of oxen. So I mean, it is foolish if you ask me to look at it on the letter, but if the fundamental principle behind it is, is God provided for Abraham or protected David, and as such I embrace that covenant of protection or provision, that makes sense. And even in our contemporary world it makes sense that if I see someone as dependable or they have helped someone from a predicament before, I will lean towards them that if this person indeed helped Demola when he couldn't pay rent, I can go and meet him because I believe that he would help me too. All right, So I think that for me, yeah, linking ourselves to the fundamentals and not necessarily what is on the letter might, might I mean something I Can relate with. We're having this actual conversation last Sunday about enemies. And I'm like, I understand this enemy concept in the times of wars when one country is worrying with another, but I don't understand it in today's context. You know, is it like my colleagues are my enemies? Do I want God to strike them dead? Do I want to come to the office with a sword and kill them? Do you understand? It's no longer culturally contextually relevant. But I get that if I have people who are opposing my goal, who are not allowing me to achieve what I want to achieve in life, I might consider them to be opposition and I might need God's help, especially if they are stronger than I am or if they are more influential than I am and I really can't do anything to them. I might consider them strong enough opposition to be regarded as enemies, just as David did in his time. And it might give me cause to go to God and say, God, this demolada wouldn't allow me to get a promotion at work. I need your help in finding a way around it. I need your help making this happen.

45:54

Take the promotion, I beg.

45:58

So I'm a guideline and within context I understand it. But whenever it jumps out of that context, and that's one of my biggest challenges with Christianity, even the Christianity that I have leaning towards, whenever it jumps context, it becomes meaningless. I don't get it. So I mean, I will leave it here because we've talked and all, and we're nearing the end of this episode, it will be to challenge listeners that what are the fundamental principles behind your beliefs, regardless of beliefs, Judaism, Islam or Christianity, or even whatever you believe for that matter? And are you asking enough questions based off that belief? Are you asking enough questions? Are you searching enough for the truth? Or have you just accepted everything that has been handed over to you? And in closing, it will be to. I want to quote Paul very. I want to paraphrase Paul in one of the. That he was talking about the letter and the spirit of God and he was saying something that, you know, when Christ came to us, you know, he spoke to us not necessarily based on what is written down, but by the spirit of God. And that it is that spirit we should look to for guidance and not necessarily the letter. Yeah, yeah. So that's, that's really where I would leave it. Even in anything, even in day to day advice from people. When someone advises you or tells you something, it's good to look at both the text and the subtext and to contextually understand or contextually filter it to say, what exactly is this thing saying? And that's how I choose to approach my own religion and understanding of God. But thank you. It's been an interesting. Yeah, Interesting.

48:03

Yeah, it's been amazing. Yeah. Till next time, dear listeners.

Episode 10: On The God of Abraham!

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